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Paul’s Official Meeting with the Apostles

26 Dec
Getting it Right

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According to Galatians 2, Paul went up to Jerusalem for a second time fourteen years after his conversion (1:18; 2:1; Acts 22:17). Some scholars wonder if Paul went up to Jerusalem fourteen years after his first visit with Peter, but I am wary of this idea. I base my understanding on the fact that Paul’s argument in Galatians appears to be that he had no time to learn his Gospel from any man, especially from the Apostles at Jerusalem. Paul is giving an account of himself from the very moment of his new birth which occurred on his way to Damascus when Jesus appeared to him for the first time. It was three years after his new birth that he came to Jerusalem, where he spent less than three weeks with the Apostles, and fourteen years after his new birth that he returned to Jerusalem.

After leaving the Apostles at Jerusalem cir. the spring of 38 AD, Paul had been evangelizing Syria, Cilicia and Galatia. The Gospel which Paul preached, although the same in essence with that of the Jerusalem Apostles, differed in some key responsibilities, but Paul insisted that his Gospel came from Jesus despite those differences. Paul’s Gospel was neither thought up by man, nor did it come to him through any human agency (Galatians 1:1). Fourteen years after his heavenly vision, Paul returned to Jerusalem by revelation (cp. Acts 11:28-30; 12:25). This visit was the very same visit mentioned in Acts 15, and it took place cir. spring of 49 AD. The men from James, whom Paul referred to as false brethren, had tried to insist on circumcision for the gentile believer, Titus, who accompanied Paul to Jerusalem. However, Paul adamantly refused their demands (Galatians 2:4-5).

Note that the initial purpose of Paul’s second visit to Jerusalem was to go to Jerusalem with the gift for the poor (Galatians 2:1-2; cp. Acts 11:28-30). Paul and Barnabas may have been originally appointed for this task years earlier when the prediction of the famine was made by Agabus, the prophet (cir. 41-44 AD), or it may have been decided by the church at Antioch that both Paul and Barnabas take their offering to the poor and at the same time take the issue of circumcision to the Apostles as well. This journey to Jerusalem took place about eleven years after Paul’s first meeting with Peter (Acts 9:27; Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:1)

Although he had returned to Jerusalem with a gift to the poor, ultimately Paul’s visit was turned into an official visit to explain his Gospel to the leaders at Jerusalem (Acts 15:1-3). Paul first visited, privately, with the leaders of the Jerusalem church (Galatians 2:2), and afterward he reported to Jerusalem’s church body (Acts 15:5).

One might ask: if Paul did not need human authorization to preach the gospel, why did he present his Gospel to the leaders in Jerusalem at all (Galatians 2:1-2)? Paul needed the support of the Jerusalem leadership to prevent division among the brethren. He was seeking to avert a real church split between Jewish and gentile Christians. He presented his version of the Gospel to the leadership, privately, in case he had to explain anything about his Gospel. Such a thing is done better without a lot of others around preventing progress being made in a discussion. Paul was concerned about failing both in keeping Church unity and in preventing a victory by the agitators in successfully attacking and undoing all Paul had been doing among the gentiles (Galatians 2:2c). If Paul refused to meet with the Jewish leaders at Jerusalem, the agitators (the men from James) could argue that Paul was uncooperative and a rebel in the community.

The proof that the Jerusalem authorities (i.e. the Apostles) agreed with Paul was the fact that Titus, a Greek was not compelled to be circumcised (Galatians 2:3). Although the false brethren sought to compel Titus to be circumcised (Acts 15:1, 5), the church leaders at Jerusalem didn’t agree. This is significant in that, if the Jerusalem church leaders (which included the Apostles) didn’t require gentile circumcision in order to be saved, then Paul was misrepresented by the agitators at Galatia, and the Council’s decision showed the men from James were clearly wrong and overstepped their authority in what they did, while bringing news of the state of the poor at Jerusalem.

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19 Comments

Posted by on December 26, 2015 in Galatians

 

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19 responses to “Paul’s Official Meeting with the Apostles

  1. Paul

    December 30, 2015 at 21:05

    Your footstool references where you try to limit it to the “temple” is not a conflict with Jesus saying to Ananai about Paul…that he is his “chosen vessel” Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
    (Note that key difference there too…the children)
    And then as we also saw in the verses I gave you…which you then tried to twist…how Paul openly said he was a servant of Jesus, and then five times…he emphasized he WAS a prisoner of Jesus…for us Gentiles…not at all emphasizing or concerned of his roman prisonership.

    And then there is important verses about the footstool which were missed out in your listing:

    Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    That “earth” is far far higher in implication of the footstool than temples…Which is repeated by Stephan:

    Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

    Not a mere “temple.”

    And thus Paul, was a made footstool. Which there is an illustration he is for the saved as for all believers who then have salvation, and then also as he shared for the children of Israel, the Jews the ultimate offer to them after the fulfillment of the Gentiles and the end of the tribulation….turning them from their bring enemies…opposers of their un accepted Messiah Jesus:
    Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
    Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    Hebrews 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
    Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    (Directly quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34)
    Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    They will finally be turned into the Gospel …which you do acknowledge (which was a change).

     
    • Eddie

      December 31, 2015 at 08:18

      Paul, I let your previous comments go by without comment. I will let this one go by as well, but this is my blog, not yours. You seem to want to say something to the world. Do it on your own website. We disagree on many things. I will not permit you to continue to do as you are doing here. I’ll stop approving your comments. This discussion is over.

       
  2. Paul

    December 28, 2015 at 23:14

    Now since you are seeking the “mysteries” revealed, 11 mysteries, of 8 to Paul you find these two articles simple and clear:

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/larkin/dt/27.cfm

    http://graceambassadors.com/mystery/what-is-the-mystery-revealed-to-paul

    And if you would go to Les Feldick book 76-2-1 and watch it from YouTube you can learn…a lot. I am hoping for your opening your heart to these revelations.

     
    • Eddie

      December 29, 2015 at 08:53

      Paul, I believe I told you once before that I don’t carry on a discussion with websites. I discuss the Bible with “folks” who wish to discuss God’s word with me. That said **you** go to the websites above, listen/read what is claimed, digest it and then discuss the main points with me.

      Anyone who has no interest in God’s word whatsoever could try to keep be busy by pointing to this and that website that denies my claims here. I require of any person who wishes to discuss God’s word with me to be at least as involved as they expect me to be. How long did it take you to post those links above? How long do you think it would take me to read or listen to whatever I find there? The dedication of time isn’t equal. It probably took you no more than five minuets to compose this reply that would take me hours to digest, and then you expect me to return to you and comment on what I’ve found. Sorry, my friend, but it doesn’t work that way. Do your job, then we’ll talk.

       
    • Paul

      December 29, 2015 at 20:22

      I already did my job and you admitted you wanted the info. On the miracles…so I kept it simple for you…and you just admitted you do t read the true bible So YOUR web site is the violation…not the ones shared to you.

       
    • Paul

      December 29, 2015 at 21:02

      Nope, you did not mention your website annoyance. Keep in mind…you are a websiter……so you shouldn’t be on it either?. You are the one who don’t read the bible. I already confronted you with verses of the changes of program…in Psalms 110.1, Acts 9, 10, and 15…and Galatians. Which you admitted you could not read …and relating to Galatians which you seriously misconstrued to avoid the clear expressions that Paul…the Footstool of Jesus…shared why he went down to Jerusalem after his 14 years. To share the new gospel which was a mystery to the previous apostles. That is why you need to read websites who are more biblically accurate…than your website. You just admitted your non-knowledge of the mysteries I mentioned that Paul got. And you are now trying to avoid that education.

      You are needing to keep aware that God keeps things secret…until he releases them:
      Deutoronomy 29:29 “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”

      Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

      Which precisely what I have seen in Les Feldick. The will of the Lord. He taught the bible far longer than you and me and he took no payments for his teachings, and the 20 years of television programs he had, and the huge number of teaching in many states. As I said before…if you are to have your heart opened to the true scriptural understanding….listen to Les. He did at least 9 half hour sessions teaching the mysteries.

       
  3. Paul Ross

    December 28, 2015 at 16:56

    You then also asked me “where in the Scriptures does it show Peter did not believe Jesus died for our sins?”

    This is precisely what Peter earlier shared to the “Ye men of Israel”

    Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

    Acts 3:19 “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;”

    His sharing of the resurrection was a massive prophetic acknowledgement he shared…but he never identified that faith alone in the dying was “for our sins” …in Acts 1-9. Not there. In Acts 10, he and his 6 other jews were all shocked when the Cornelian gentiles were all saved just after he shared the resurrection…not the baptism, the repentance, etc. which he had shared as his gospel to the Jews.

     
    • Eddie

      December 29, 2015 at 08:46

      Your interpretation of the Scriptures demands that Jesus failed and Paul succeeded. If Peter didn’t know the Gospel, Jesus failed. If Paul had to teach Peter what the Gospel was, Jesus failed and Paul succeeded. I don’t go along with such an interpretation of the Scriptures.

      Peter claimed in Acts 2:38 that Jesus died for our sins, and he also claims so in 1Peter 1:18-19. You may believe however you please.

       
    • Paul

      December 29, 2015 at 21:18

      You are now extremely misconstruing now Against Apostle Paul of us Gentiles what I shared to you. Jesus was in Paul, his footstool, it was Jesus who succeeded. And Paul does not exaggerate himself at all as you are accusing meanfully…pay attention to just this verse: 1Corinthians 4:10 ” We are fools for Christ’s sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honorable, but we are despised.”
      And this one:
      1Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

       
  4. Paul Ross

    December 28, 2015 at 16:34

    You missed scripture more, unfortunately, he makes clear what he is spiritually under, not under Rome, but you misunderstand what his prisonership references emphasize. Not physical prisonership. But spiritual…as he shared in Romans 1:9 “For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son,” Servicing…spiritually.. is a clear reference to the footstool status from Psalms 110:1, and Acts 9:15 “for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:” A vessel is something UNDER control…
    , as what Paul alludes to later…a prisoner of Jesus…as he makes clear that is what is important…not Roman or Israelite imprisonment.

    So let’s get further into this right understanding as you mistakenly attempt to dispute, failingly, when you say “if Paul was a Roman prisoner, he was also a prisoner of Jesus, You stated “Notice that Paul never mentions that he is a “prisoner” of anyone, including Jesus or the Father, in other epistles such as Romans, First or Second Corinthians, Galatians, First or Second Thessalonians etc” …you are flunked by Paul’s “never mentions that he is a prisoner of anyone”…in other verses. That proves what I already emphasized. He is under Jesus, not Romans or Israel, and their imprisonments. Your attempted argument that it was only mentioned in the five verses I sited (to make it simple for you)…but you ignored trying to rely on the non-prisoner mentions…but actually allude to it in the other books…well let’s look at them as should be properly interpreted:

    Romans 1:1 “Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, ”

    Romans 1:9 “For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son,”

    By being a servant, he is consistently being a footstool, a chosen vessel, and also…a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

    And let’s continue on now into your Corinthians dispute…
    1st Corinthians 1:1 “Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God…”
    Thus it is not his call, it is the “footstool” and “service” and “chosen vessel” …which is the prisoner status that we already sited.

    2nd Corinthians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God…” By the WILL of God. His control. Again it is his being a footstool, a servicer, a “chosen vessel” …which is precisely what he consigns later with the being classified a prisoner of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Then Galatians:

    Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ”

    Paul was a “man”, so when he mentions “not of men, neither by man” he is making it clear that this service of the being an Apostle, was not his calling, but of Jesus, thus clearly confirming still the footstool status, the chosen vessel, the spiritually controlled prisoner…of Jesus Christ.

    Thessalonians:
    This was a joint letter where he was also listing Silvanus and Timotheus. So he would not call them prisoners…although he would so identify himself. But then he made clear of something about being a vessel under the spiritual control:
    1st Thessalonians 2:4 “But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.”
    That trying of the hearts is a clear illustration that he emphasized how Jesus Christ was using him. He even mentioned the vessel status of himself…1st Thessalonians 4:4 “That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; ” That is precisely of the Apostle services.

    2nd Thessalonians had the same listing approach. But Then there is a key warning in 2nd Thessalonians…that applies clearly to the people that refuse to accept the change of program:

    II Thessalonians 2:10-12. Simply put, God sends a strong delusion to those who choose not to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Those who take delight in mocking and rejecting Him, He will condemn, confuse their thinking, and cause them to believe fables. And they do!

    And then there was a massive evidence that Peter had become, well after Acts 1-9, a major supporter of the changed Gospel, of Grace that was given to the Apostle Paul …for to be shared to us. That he sought to get the Jews to also become believers in Paul’s teaching:

    2nd Peter 3:14 “Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”
    2nd Peter 3:15 “And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; ”
    2nd Peter 3:16 “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ”

    He is clearly emphasizing that Gospel of Grace, not of works, not under the law…but by Faith….which Paul made clearest in 1st Corinthians 15:1-4

    1st Corinthians 15:1 ” Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; ”
    1st Corinthians 15:2 “By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.”
    1st Co 15:3 “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; ”
    1st Co 15:4 “And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”

    Don’t think that is a true change of program acknowledged by Peter? Then you need to face this verse…in Acts 15:7-11.

    The whole conflict in the Acts 15 meeting that Jesus had revealed to Paul to go to Jerusalem to deal with the legalists of Jews trying to make all the Gentile believers become Legalist Jews prosalites. And there was major disputing by them against Paul and Barnabus:

    Acts 15:7 “And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. ”
    (This was clearly the allusion to his Acts 10 requirement by Jesus to go to Cornelius, the Roman Centurian…when he just got through the resurrection of Jesus…and those Gentiles were suddenly given the Holy Spirit…without any baptism or repentence, or circumcision or law followings…shocking the heck out of all the 7 jews).

    Act 15:8 “And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;”
    Act 15:9 “And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.”

    Note: “By faith”. Not by the law, or works. A clear difference acknowledged. What he mentions about no difference …when they had the Holy Spirit.

    Act 15:10 “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”

    Peter is explicitly acknowledging that they and their fathers had not beent able to bear the huge yokes of laws and works.

    Act 15:11 “But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”

    Right there, Peter is explicitly acknowledging that he was hoping also that they, the Jews, could have the same ground of salvation as they obviously witnessed being given to the Gentiles…who got it just by Faith…which was the result by Jesus…giving his “grace.” Not the same arrangement that was pushed by those legalist Pharisees. And not what had early shared in Acts 3 and 4 to the Jews in Jerusalem.

    And Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus, clearly would have know that old approach for salvation, and had gone after the Jewish believers in that. But as we see in his scriptures, and in Peter…he got a changed offer for sharing.

    Time for every Christians to trust in that truth, i.e., Faith. Else they would be falling under the deceipt of satan as described in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3

     
    • Eddie

      December 29, 2015 at 08:40

      Paul, you need to get a blog of your own, my friend. Your ‘comment’ is three full pages in my Word document. Be forewarned, I will not post another such reply. I will do it just this once in our discussion, but not again.

      It seems to me that you are seeking to force-fit your “footstool” doctrine into the Scriptures. It really should be the other way around, Paul. You need to subject your doctrines to the Scriptures. You are actually acting contrary to your “footstool” understanding of the Scriptures. Speaking of footstool, why would you think the term means forced submission? Is it because you found the meaning in the dictionary? Is that how you define the word of God? Is “Webster” your pastor? Well, Webster could probably preach from James 2:3, but not from any other passage in the Bible where the term is found.

      In almost every case where footstool is mentioned in the Old Testament it has to do with the Temple of God being his footstool or House of worship. David wished to build a footstool for God so his people could worship him there (1Chronicles 28:2). Solomon built a footstool of gold and attached it to the steps leading to the Throne of God in the Temple (2Chronicles 9:18). We are called to worship God at his footstool or Temple (Psalm 99:5); again, we worship in his Tabernacle (Temple) at his footstool (Psalm 132:7). Jeremiah laments the fact that God in his wrath didn’t remember his footstool i.e. his Temple (Lamentations 2:1).

      This brings us to Psalm 110:1 where God says to the Messiah “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. According to Webster, this would mean “until I force them to submit to you”. According to how the word is used in the Old Testament it means “until I cause your enemies to be a place of worship.”

      Paul, God isn’t interested in forced worship. Why would he? Anyone who is powerful could force someone weaker to do whatever pleases the powerful person. Using power this way is not a great thing; the world does this all the time! It really takes a wise and powerful person to cause others to desire to do what the powerful person wants. In the case of Psalm 110:1—to cause the enemies of Christ to voluntarily worship before his throne.

      I have not found Webster to be a good interpreter of the Bible. Have a good day, Paul.

       
  5. Paul

    December 27, 2015 at 15:38

    And now let us teach you what fail to comprehend …and dispute..about Psalms 110:1 relevance to the forced conversion of Saul of Tarsus.

    Psalms 110:1 “A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”

    (This was a prophecy that the Son of God, the Lord, would sit at his the father right hand in heaven, would, obviously after having suffered his damage from “thine enemies” (full plural) that he would accumulate while he was walking on Earth …and they killed him by crucifiction, where he shed his blood… And then, he would eventually have his enemies made his footstool…imprisoned under him…or a restful service for him under his directions. This has been routinely interpreted as his day of the Lord…when he returns down. But there is evidence he did one prior example to that end time. And there was a one major illustration of this…prior to the end times when he “the Day of the Lord” returns… There was an religiously wicked enemy who was arresting many Jesus believing Jews, taking them to the Jerusalem temple, and killing them. So on Acts 9 we should all read …and recognize how critically DIFFERENT this situation was. And on the road to Damascus…Jesus shut down Saul of Tarsus who likely was his single greatest enmity. Making him and his army fall off their horses…and they all saw the light in heaven…but only he could understand the voice of Jesus…the rest could not… and he obviously was given the capacity to see him up in heaven…which resulted in his blinding. This was for three days…when one of the believing Jews, Ananias, …who the enemy had obviously planned to seize and arrest for killing… was commanded by Jesus to go to him…who was afraid to go in front of the enemy. But Jesus did tell him to go, and put his hands on him to return his vision. And then to tell him that he was to be going to the Gentiles….to bear Jesus before them all.) I.e., his footstool acknowledgement:

    Act 9:15 “But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:”

    And we know he did.

    Then there are five verses in the Epistles of Paul …who defined that he was the vessel for Jesus..or the footstool…which he called being an official prisoner under Jesus…to be The apostle for us Gentiles.

    Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

    Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

    2Titus 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

    Philemon 1:1 Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,

    Philemon 1:9 Yet for love’s sake I rather beseech thee, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

    And as his prisoner…he was to share not of men…but of God…

    Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

    Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

     
    • Eddie

      December 28, 2015 at 10:11

      I won’t address what I disagree with in your understanding of Acts 9 (your large paragraph above), but I do intend to address what you claim about the five verses in three of Paul’s epistles. When Paul wrote those three epistles he was actually a prisoner either at Caesarea or at Rome. So, he described himself as a “prisoner of Jesus Christ” the only authority Paul recognized. All authority stems from God according to Paul (Romans 13:1-2), and Jesus sits on the throne of God, the foundation of all authority (Hebrews 10:12; 12:2). Therefore, if Paul was a Roman prisoner, he was also a prisoner of Jesus, because Rome received their authority from the Messiah—Jesus, who rules or sits at the right hand of God. Notice that Paul never mentions that he is a “prisoner” of anyone, including Jesus or the Father, in other epistles such as Romans, First or Second Corinthians, Galatians, First or Second Thessalonians etc. If he is a “prisoner of Jesus” by virtue of Psalm 110:1, why doesn’t he mention his “captive” status in these other epistles?

      Concerning Galatians 1:11-12, you mention nothing. I know what I believe about these verses, but I don’t wish to anticipate what you derive from them.

       
  6. Paul

    December 27, 2015 at 15:31

    You unfortunately need to be corrected. You just misunderstood the emphasizing good news that Apostle Paul mentioned in 1st Corinthians 15:11. I note you refuse to listen to Les Feldick…then read this:

    https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/1-corinthians-15-11/

    And this is precisely from your own source…Wordpress.com.

    And then explain how Paul was also revealed directly by Jesus from Above…8 mysteries …repeat 8 mysteries…that were not previously given to the other apostles. But he was to then share them. And he did. And be aware that the changes of program were made manifest to Paul and he shared them to Gentiles who he was their apostle…also to Jews as he still seemed their salvation. As he said he himself would rather die than see them lost… Peter saw a change of program too, after him and the other 7 Jews were shocked that the Gentiles in Acts 10, (after Paul’s forced change in Acts 9) who were saved by the Holy Spirit when they just believed in Jesus Resurrection…not having circumcision or baptism. A TOTAL shock to Peter. And he went back to Jerusalem …and the Jews were assaulting him for the meeting with Gentiles and violating the law of Moses and that he ate with them. That was yet another change of program. We are not under the law. But who expressly emphasized that? Paul….under the revelation he received in the three years in Arabia at Mount Sinai before he went back to Damascus, and then finally went back to Jerusalem. Where he could only meet initially the two other apostles. Peter…and James…Jesus’s brother…whereas the original James was killed by chief Jews. And James became the administer. Of the judaistic church in Jerusalem …as Peter was being contended against for the Acts 9 issue. James thus ran the meeting in the Acts 15 issue. The revelation to Paul was to go to them to teach them the new true gospel of salvation, to have faith in Jesus having covered their entire sins on the cross. And that he was resurrected for the proof of salvation…and to show his proof of fulfilled prophecy…and that he was alive for us still to pray to…and receive his holy spirits leading in our hearts. And then Peter made clear in Acts 15 how he accepted the new gospel, along with John and James. They shook hands with Paul. And then Peter finally expressed that Jesus died for our sins… In the late letter 1st Peter 1:18-19. That was never shared in his earlier teachings in Acts.

    Time for you to learn the truth in the Bible. There were changes of the program by Jesus. Which is the greatest element of his grace for us Gentiles.

     
    • Eddie

      December 28, 2015 at 09:41

      “And this is precisely from your own source…”

      I take this that you mean the above link comes from wordpress, which is the website that I use. I have never been on the above link before, nor do I find it very informative, except to show what I don’t believe.

      Concerning your “8 mysteries”, I try never to anticipate my opponent’s argument. If you will mention those mysteries, and I have the time, we can then discuss them.

      “And be aware that the changes of program were made manifest to Paul…”

      Again, you don’t mention what you mean by “changes of program” so I don’t know if I agree or disagree with you. Please be more specific.

      “…also to Jews as he still seemed their salvation.”

      I cannot determine what you mean by the above.

      “Peter saw a change of program too, after him and the other 7 Jews were shocked that the Gentiles in Acts 10, (after Paul’s forced change in Acts 9) who were saved by the Holy Spirit when they just believed in Jesus Resurrection…not having circumcision or baptism. A TOTAL shock to Peter.”

      I don’t know what you point was here. Are you trying to say that Peter at this point preached “Paul’s Gospel”? What do you mean by “A TOTAL shock to Peter?” Would that be anything like the Damascus experience being “A TOTAL shock to…” Paul?

      “And he went back to Jerusalem …and the Jews were assaulting him for the meeting with Gentiles and violating the law of Moses and that he ate with them.”

      Which Jews assaulted Peter? It couldn’t have been all Jews, because Peter was a Jew himself. Which Jews are you speaking about?

      “Paul….under the revelation he received in the three years in Arabia at Mount Sinai before he went back to Damascus, and then finally went back to Jerusalem.”

      Do you have proof that Paul went to Mount Sinai? What “revelation” did he receive in Arabia? I am aware of the “revelation” he received on the road to Damascus, but what “revelation” are you speaking about?

      “whereas the original James was killed by chief Jews.”

      Paul returned to Jerusalem in Acts 9. James, the brother of John didn’t die until Acts 12, a time-span of about 6 years (give or take). Just keeping our discussion accurate.

      “as Peter was being contended against for the Acts 9 issue.”

      Again, we are still in Acts 9 when Paul returns, but you probably mean the Acts 10 issue. So, Paul met with Peter and James before Peter had any issues with gentiles, so I don’t see the point you are trying to make here.

      “The revelation to Paul was to go to them to teach them the new true gospel of salvation, to have faith in Jesus having covered their entire sins on the cross.”

      So, in other words, Jesus was unsuccessful in teaching the Apostles about the Gospel, but Paul succeeded where Jesus failed. Is that what you are trying to say? If not, would you mind being more explicit, because that is exactly the meaning that can be derived from what you say?

      “And that he was resurrected for the proof of salvation…and to show his proof of fulfilled prophecy…and that he was alive for us still to pray to…and receive his holy spirits leading in our hearts.”

      I can see that you believe that this is what Paul told the Apostles in Jerusalem, but where do you find that in the Scriptures?

      “And then Peter made clear in Acts 15 how he accepted the new gospel, along with John and James. They shook hands with Paul. And then Peter finally expressed that Jesus died for our sins… In the late letter 1st Peter 1:18-19. That was never shared in his earlier teachings in Acts.”

      Again, I am able to see that **you** believe this to be true, but where in the Scriptures does it show Peter did not believe Jesus died for our sins? Where does Scripture tell us that Paul corrected Peter’s misunderstanding of the fact that Jesus died for our sins? Finally, how would you interpret Peter’s words: “Then Peter said unto them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.’” (Act 2:38)? It certainly seems like Luke thought Peter’s original Gospel included Christ dying for our sins, but what do you think?

      “Time for you to learn the truth in the Bible. There were changes of the program by Jesus. Which is the greatest element of his grace for us Gentiles.”

      Well, perhaps in your reply we’ll all see evidence of your wisdom, showing us how Jesus **changed** his original program which he first gave his Apostles in the 3 ½ years he spent with them in close discussion and teaching. I am at the edge of my seat now waiting to find out how Paul succeeded where Jesus failed. Yes, please show us these things so we can “learn the truth of the Bible”, and don’t forget to quote chapter and verse, so I can read it for myself in my own Bible.

       
  7. Paul

    December 26, 2015 at 12:50

    Still not seeing any posting of true relevant scripture by your posts:

    Gal 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

    He does not lie or misconstrue of the changes of gospel he received for the Gentiles:

    Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

    Obviously a DIFFERENT gospel, otherwise he clearly would have known it before. And Not from any other apostles or Jewish disciples….as he declared:

    Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    And he clearly did not right back to Jerusalem after his becoming Jesus’s footstool.

    Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; (I.e., the GENTILES). immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
    (I.e., humanity)

    So who did he confer to?

    Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

    Where would he have gone to Arabia for? Only one likelihood: Mount Sinai! Just as Moses did.

    So the when did he first go back to Jerusalem after being made Jews Footstool?

    Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

    And he did not return for 14 years after as he said.. Not be misconstrued:

    Gal 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

    And why precisely did he go…by Jesus telling him too, I.e., REVELATION.
    Too share the NEW Gospel:

    Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

     
    • Eddie

      December 26, 2015 at 14:49

      Paul, I have to wonder what would be relevant, according to you. You seem to be zeroed in on one single idea, but I am trying to present the arguments Paul used in his epistle against the Judaizers who troubled the churches in Galatia. Paul’s letter was written to combat their arguments and to restore the Galatian churches to the true Gospel.

      What you seem to be trying to say is that Paul preached a different Gospel than the apostles at Jerusalem. That’s not true, and such an idea isn’t supported by anything in his epistle.

      Concerning Galatians 2:2, Paul went up to Jerusalem by revelation – i.e. Acts 11:27-30. The prophet Agabus had predicted a famine would come to Judea, and it was decided at the time of the prophecy that Paul and Barnabas would carry Antioch’s offering up to Judea, when the time of the famine had arrived. Paul was referring to the revelation that had come to Agabus. He went up to Jerusalem 14 years after his conversion in response to this revelation. It is my belief that the Judaizers had come to Antioch, Cilicia and Galatia to tell the gentiles that Jerusalem needed their offerings they had been setting aside for the poor at Jerusalem. While they were visiting the gentile churches, they overstepped their authority by seeking to bring gentiles under the authority of the Mosaic Law (circumcision). This is what Paul addresses in his epistle to the Galatians.

       
  8. Paul

    December 26, 2015 at 11:41

    Time for you to stop screwing up the scripture of Paul. He explicitly only went back to Jerusalem after his forced conversion…the clear illustrate of Psalm 110:1. He was made a footstool. He did not need the teaching from the other apostles and he explicitly said something you are not allowed to call a lie:
    Galatians 2:6 “But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
    Galatians 2:7 “But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;”
    NOT THE SAME GOSPEL …Jesus changed it.. For us Gentiles.
    If you need a teacher, listen to the far more knowledgeable teacher than you are…Les Feldick…the 88 year old Oklahoma rancher.

     
    • Eddie

      December 26, 2015 at 14:48

      Well, Paul, clearly you found a teacher who pleases you. Why not stick with him and stop trying to correct me. Clearly, we don’t see eye-to-eye. There doesn’t seem to be any common ground between us, so it may be better for your stomach’s sake to stick with what pleases you.

      Concerning “screwing up the scripture”… I don’t know what you mean. Psalm 110:1 has absolutely nothing to do with how you are applying it. God forces no one to do anything. “Force” is the world’s way, not God’s.

      Concerning Galatians 2:6-7… there is only ONE Gospel. It concerns Jesus’ teaching, his death and resurrection, ascension, coronation and place at the right hand of God. Both Peter and Paul preached this same Gospel. What you are not seeing concerning Galatians 2:6-7 is that at Jerusalem Peter preached circumcision, i.e obey the laws of Judaism. Similarly, Paul preached to the gentiles, except, rather than obeying Judaism (circumcision), to obey the laws of the land in which they lived. Jews needed to obey the laws of the Jews, and gentiles needed to obey the laws of the gentiles where they resided. But, to Paul’s basic Gospel, the leaders in Jerusalem **added** nothing. This was Paul’s argument against what the Judaizers, who were troubling the Galatians, had been saying against Paul. Peter and Paul agreed about the guts of the Gospel.

      In fact, Paul had to address a problem of favorite teachers at Corinth (1Corinthians 1:12), and later told his readers that, no matter which one preached to them, what they heard was the same Gospel (1Corinthians 15:11).

       

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